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托特纳姆第一并购公司纳斯达克上市采访实录(双语版)

2018-10-10 Visit:Number

2018年8月2日,托特纳姆第一并购有限公司 (Tottenham Acquisition I Limited)在美国纳斯达克挂牌上市,股票代号:TOTAU。该股票每销售单位(Unit)的价格为10美元,每单位同时附带了1/2认购权 (Warrant)及1供股权(Right),现已拆分为TOTA(股份)、TOTAW(认购权)与TOTAR(供股权)。

On August 2nd, 2018, Tottenham Acquisition I Limited went public on the Nasdaq Exchange under the trading symbol of TOTAU. The unit price is 10 dollars including one common share, a half warrant and one right. The unit has since split into separate trading under TOTA (common stock),TOTAW(warrant) and TOTAR (right).

团队成员于美国时间7月25日赴美路演,由于准备充分,投资者热情高涨,路演当天就完成了全部融资目标,实现了四倍超额认购,顺利募资约5000万美元。路演结束后七天便在美国纳斯达克挂牌上市,可谓创造了惊奇。

Management team commended roadshow on July 25rd. With thorough preparation and a compelling theme, reactions from investors were overwhelmingly enthusiastic and the financing target of 50 million dollars were essentially achieved on the very first day of the road show.  Roadshow was completed shortly after with total over subscription of four times and the SPAC was listed on Nasdaq within seven days, which one may well refer it as a miracle.

SPAC上市之路, 挑战重重,离不开背后强大的团队。他们是美国联合商业协会亚洲区秘书长及美联商汇(亚洲)资本集团中国区总裁杨杰先生、美国联合商业协会中国区总干事刘柏亨先生以及上市公司CEO马加玮先生等,他们均在不同的领域与地区有着多年的投资经验,拥有充足的市场资源。

The path of listing for the SPAC had numerous challenges, which certainly could not be overcome if not for a very strong management team. The team comprises of renowned investors and industry veterans: Mr. Jack Yang, secretary general of American General Business Association (Asia region) and the president of AGBA (Asia) Capital Group Limited (China office), Mr. Henry Liu, the director general of AGBA and Mr. Jason Ma, the CEO of Tottenham Acquisition I Limited, etc. They all have rich investment experience in different fields and regions together with abundance market resources.

托特纳姆第一并购公司上市受到了美国各大媒体的关注,团队成员亦陆续接受了相关采访,采访语录如下:

Tottenham Acquisition I Limited has received particular attention from major media in America and our team members have conducted interviews accordingly. Below is the transcript of the interviews:



1. 您为什么选择做SPAC?

A:一直以来我都在做传统的PE(私募股权投资),但PE存在自身的问题。一、PE是有年限的,比如5年、7年或是10年,不论公司发展如何,在特定年限内,投资者必须退出。比如我们集团曾投资过的阿里巴巴,头几年经营不好,后来逐渐发展壮大,但年限到了,不得不退出。二、PE通常投资非上市公司,需要帮其辅导、融资、IPO,直至退出,期限拉的很长。我认为SPAC的一个好处就在于,有些企业家不仅仅需要资金,他们更期盼上市,而SPAC就可以给他们一个上市的平台,而且这个平台对投资者的退出没有时间限制。


1. What makes you decide to start a SPAC? Why a SPAC?

A: I have been involved in traditional PE for many years, but PE has its own problems. First, PE has limited investment period, say 5 years, 7 years or 10 years.  Regardless of how the company develops, good or bad, investors must exit within certain time limit. Take Alibaba as an example. Our group has made early investment in Alibaba but the development with the company was not very good in the first few years. By the time it started to turn around and grow, our time has run out and we had no choice but to divest. Second, the target company of PE is usually non-listed companies. We need to provide tutoring and assist them in financing and IPO until we exit. The duration is usually quite long. On the contrary, one of the merits of SPAC is that, for entrepreneurs who not only seek capital, but also want to go public, it provides them with such a platform which is also flexible for investors with no time limit.


2. 您认为SPAC团队需要满足什么样的要求?

A:我认为主要是三个方面,一、能力,从发起SPAC、组建团队、募集资金,到获得美国SEC批准、选择投资目标企业、市值管理、并购重组直至退出的能力和丰富经验;二、需要具备丰富的美国上市的经验;三、具有较强的表达能力,可以与投资人做良好的沟通,让投资人信服。当然,做一个SPAC到最终退出,是一个优秀的团队集体配合完成的,只有经历过这些,才知道很多事项都是很重要的。


2. What criteria do you use for putting together a SPAC team?

A: I think it relies on three aspects. First, capability. The capability and experience of initiating a SPAC, forming a management team, raising initial capitals, going through SEC approval process, selecting target company, managing market value, merger & acquisition and divesting. Second, ample experience in American public market.  Third, strong inter-personnel skills, be able to conduct good communication with and motivate investors. Of course, at the end of the day the actual execution and cooperation among the team would be vital from starting and exiting a SPAC.


3. 杨杰先生,请分享一下你们过去协助SPAC运作的经验?

杨:2008年全球金融危机后,中国企业SPAC上市之路曾一度止步不前。我们集团股东发起的SPAC平台——DT ASIA (代码CADTU),是金融危机后首个面向中国市场的SPAC,具有市场破冰意义。DT ASIA成功募集6900万美元,被《国际并购》杂志评为亚洲最佳IPO,并在2016年成功并购了一家小贷公司,合并后更名为中国贷款集团,代码CLDC。2016年,我们的团队成员又发起了一家募资1.5亿美元的SPAC公司。这次的托特纳姆第一并购公司已经是我们集团发起的第三个SPAC。我们深知中国企业的需求和美国投资者的要求,我们知道如何帮助企业快捷高效地上市,这些是我们最宝贵的经验。我们的经验让我们的合作伙伴与我们共同受益。


3. Mr. Jack Yang, please share your past experience in SPACs.

Yang: After global financial crisis in 2008, Chinese companies going public through SPAC has come to a standstill. After that, our group business associates have initiated DT Asia (CADT) as the first Chinese market-oriented SPAC post financial crisis, pretty much an icebreaker. At that time, DT Asia successfully raised 69 million dollars, chosen as the best IPO in Asia by Acquisition International. It merged with a lending company in 2016 and continued trading under the name China Lending Group (CLDC). That same year, our team member again initiated another 150 million dollar SPAC. Tottenham is the third SPAC our group has launched. We know very well the requirements of Chinese companies and the demand of American investors and we know how to help companies to go public in such a more efficient and faster manner. 


4. 杨先生,为什么SPAC适合中国市场? 对中国企业有什么好处?您如何看待SPAC在中国未来几年的发展? 

杨:众所周知,中国企业在国内主板上市非常困难,排队时间长、过会率低、对行业类型亦有诸多限制,许多优秀企业只能选择到境外上市。而美国资本市场作为最成熟多元的市场给很多中国企业提供了广阔的融资渠道,更好地体现了它们的价值。传统的IPO上市有很大的风险和不确定性,对于中小型公司尤为如此。而用借壳上市的方式则要考虑借壳成本高、法律风险大、监管审批难、融资难等问题。而SPAC模式则很大程度上避免了这些问题。SPAC是已经募集好资金的标准上市公司,目标企业在各方面达到要求后,与SPAC上市公司合并即可实现上市。80%的工作SPAC公司已经完成,目标企业可以以更快的速度、更少的费用做一件有确定性的事,美国SEC也非常鼓励这种方式。中国企业对SPAC的了解尚处于初步阶段,很多企业甚至没有听说过SPAC上市模式。我认为,随着SPAC概念的逐步推广,在未来几年,中国对SPAC的需求会呈井喷式增长,SPAC将供不应求。


4. Mr. Yang, why SPAC is a good fit for Chinese market? What benefit can SPAC bring to Chinese enterprises? And how do you foresee the development of Chinese SPAC in the coming years? 

Yang: We all know that it is difficult for Chinese companies to go public on the main boards in China. With long queuing time, low approval rate and lots of limitations on industrial types, many companies have to go public in overseas market. As the most sophisticated and diversified market, US public exchanges provide wide financing channels for Chinese companies and better manifest their value. Traditional IPO has high level of risk and uncertainty, especially for SME companies. SPAC can mitigate such kind of risk to a large extent. SPAC is a listed company with raised capital and target company can go public upon merger with a SPAC. 80% of the work has been done and target company is actually completing a relatively certain task in a faster manner and lower cost. The development of SPAC is still at an early stage and many companies may not even have heard of this avenue. I believe with the gradual popularity of SPAC concept in China, the demand for SPAC will grow substantially and one day the supply may not even be able to meet the demand.



5. 您是如何寻找目标企业的?有哪些来源和渠道?

A:我们在国内已有20多年的投资经验,有较为成熟的网络和渠道。AGBA已经进入中国12年了,在寻找及辅导国内中小企业通过SPAC模式上市上有很丰富的经验。


5. How do you source deals? What's your proprietary network?

A: We have more than 20 years of investment experience with mature network and channels domestically. And AGBA has been working in China for over 12 years with rich experience in searching and tutoring SME enterprises in china and mentor them to go public through SPAC.


6. 刘柏亨先生,AGBA可以为协助中国企业海外上市提供哪些服务? 

liu:一个企业若想成功在美国上市并发展壮大,需要从内部到外部进行系统的梳理和整合,包括制定清晰合理的目标、顶层架构设计、商业模式优化、业绩增长、上市架构搭建、公共关系、不同轮次投融资、兼并重组、市值管理等一系列事宜,而通过传统模式上市的企业往往需要找多个机构分散性地提供服务或合作,这样很容易出现衔接不当、信息不对称、工作效率低等问题,而AGBA在美国资本市场有着丰富的资源和专业团队,从企业的上市筹备阶段到上市后的很长一段时间内,全程深度地帮扶企业,提供一条龙的专业服务。


6. Mr. Henry Liu, please tell us how AGBA helps Chinese enterprises to go public in the US?

Liu: If a company wants to go public in the US, it will need to go through systematic reorganization internally and externally: such as setting clear and reasonable target, group structure reorganization, business model enhancement, promoting business growth, public relation, various rounds of financing and market value management. Companies that conduct traditional IPO tend to rely on different institutions that provide services separately, which may lead to miscommunication, information asymmetry and therefore low work efficiency. Instead, AGBA can provide integrated professional services with its rich resources and professional teams in the US market to mentor companies throughout the whole process from preparation stage to a long period after getting listed.


7. 刘先生,什么行业或者类型的企业适合与SPAC合并? 

刘:SPAC的模式适合任何一个行业,但是从中国企业的角度来看,去美国上市要考虑海外法律架构、税收、商业模式等问题,重资产和传统产业增长空间有限的企业不太受投资者追捧,国有成分也是较为棘手的问题。因此,互联网、IT、大健康、科技、金融、教育、环保等行业,尤其是轻资产,现金流大,有快速增长潜力的企业是比较适合的,也更受投资者的青睐。没有不好的行业,只有不好的企业。我们的“飞鹰计划”就是帮助有潜力的企业从雏鸟变成雄鹰。


7. Mr. Liu, what kind of industry or characteristic of Chinese companies can fit into SPAC merger?

Liu: SPAC actually sets no limit on industrial background, but still Chinese companies should consider the following issues: first, overseas legal framework, taxation and business model can somehow be different from that of China; second, companies of heavy asset and limited growth potential may not be favored by US investors; third, state-owned shareholding can be very difficult from a compliance point of view. As such, companies of Internet, IT, big data health care, technology, finance, education and green industries with light asset, abundance cash flow and massive growth potential are much more favored by investors. Nevertheless, there is no so-called bad industry, only bad companies. Our “Eagle Plan” is designated to help companies with potential to grow from small bird into eagle.


8. 马先生,中国、香港和美国市场对企业的估值有什么差异?

马:我们目标行业(包括互联网,大健康,人工智能等)的企业,在美国上市的例子有很多。这些企业在美国纳斯达克上市都能享受到比在香港/中国更好的市盈率及更广阔的融资渠道。中国证券日报8月17日数据显示,中国沪深两市平均市盈率17.91倍,而美国纳斯达克平均市盈率为55倍,也就是现阶段中国上市估值10亿的企业,在美国能估值到30亿,虽然只是一个方面的参考,却也能看到中美股市现阶段的巨大差距。所以,我们的SPAC和这类企业合并其实是双赢的,一方面我们能找到优质公司,另一方面他们也可以在一个更能体现自身价值的平台上上市融资。


8. Mr. Ma, what is the valuation comparison like in China, HK and the US?

Ma: Many companies of our target industries such as Internet, big data health care and artificial intelligence are listed in the American stock exchanges and those companies enjoy much better price earnings ratio and much wider financing channels in US market than in Hong Kong and mainland China. The data of Security Daily on 17th, August indicates that the average price earnings ratio in Shanghai and Shenzhen exchange is 17.91 and that of Nasdaq is 55, meaning that a one-billion-dollar company in China can achieve valuation of three billion in US. Although this is only a reference, we can still see the huge difference currently between China and US market. Therefore, the merger between SPAC and the target company is actually a win-win situation. On the one hand, we get to merge with a company of good quality. On the other hand, the target company can also obtain financing by listing in a platform which better manifests their value.


9. 马先生,中国的SPAC在过去很难通过企业合并从美国和西方投资者处获得投资,对于西方资本参与度低,您有何解决方案?

马:其实不论是什么类型的投资者,不论他们倾向于什么类型的项目,他们都只看重两点:项目前景及项目风险。所以,我们必须先建立强大的SPAC团队,这对于目标企业的选择及合并前后对目标公司的辅导都有了一定的”质量保证“。另外,赴美上市的中国企业一般都是新面孔, 不为美国投资者熟知,也尚未获得投资者们的认同,所以估值方面建议不要太激进。待上市后,做好本业之余,积极地与资本市场沟通,建立良好的品牌形象,再陆续融资,才是有利于企业长足发展的正确策略。


9. Mr. Ma, Chinese SPACs over the years struggled to raise equity capital upon business combination from US/Canadian investors, do you have a solution for that lack of western capital participation?  

Ma: No matter what kinds of investors they are and no matter what types of projects they are inclined to, they all essentially focus on two things: project prospect and project risk. Therefore, we must first establish a strong SPAC team, which can ensure the quality and proper process in the selection of target company and relevant tutoring before and after the business combination. Also, Chinese companies are usually newcomers in US market and unknown by the America investors. We suggest companies to be less aggressive in terms of valuation initially. The proper strategy which facilitates long-term development of the company is to maintain business performance after getting listed, actively communicate with the market, establish good brand image and then seek for multiple rounds of financing accordingly.


10. 您是否认为中国对SPAC有巨大的需求?

马:当然!SPAC的上市方式其实非常合适国内企业。国内企业在考虑上市时,面对三个最大的不确定因素是:1)企业能否成功通过审批在主板上市 2)企业上市能否成功融资。3)上市的费用和时间。SPAC是在美国主板挂牌交易,并且是已经成功融资的上市公司,正好针对性地用行动解决了上市及融资的问题。另外,相比国内IPO过会率低、上市时间长,且有行业限制的现状,SPAC的目标企业在满足美国证监会相关要求后最快三个月即可上市,对于那些已经满足上市要求,却由于行业限制无法上市的企业(如ICP、E-commerce)而言,SPAC更是一个很好的途径。

10. Do you see a lot of demand from China on SPAC?

Ma: Yes, for sure. SPAC actually fits Chinese companies very much. The biggest three uncertainties of going public for Chinese companies are: 1) can the company get approval to be listed on the main board; 2) can the company obtain financing; 3) the cost and time of going public. SPAC is a successfully financed and listed company on the main board of American market, which essentially solved the issues of financing and listing. On top of that, compared to dealing with the low approval rate, long queuing time and strict industrial limitation in China capital market, the target company of SPAC can get listed within three months after meeting relevant requirements of the SEC. Moreover, for those qualified companies that cannot get listed due to industrial limitations in China capital market (ICP, E-commerce), SPAC is doubtlessly an even better choice.


11. 您认为您的竞争者有哪些?PE或是传统IPO算吗?

A:SPAC和PE其实是互补的,我们的目标企业也很可能曾通过PE融资。但PE做不了上市的部分,而SPAC已经是上市公司,可以通过合并帮目标企业跑完最后一公里,助其上市。至于传统IPO,有些企业确实会考量:是直接IPO还是通过SPAC合并上市。这方面的竞争也会更大一些。其实IPO和SPAC各有各的好处,适合不同类型的企业,这里不做细谈。针对SPAC领域,其实现在真正在亚洲做SPAC的企业很少,而且大家侧重的领域也不同,有专门做医疗的或做教育的等等。SPAC在中国还处于初步阶段,企业对其了解还很有限,成功案例也屈指可数,所以我认为目前SPAC领域在国内还谈不上竞争。


11. Who are your competitors (PE? Traditional IPO?)

A: SPAC and PE are actually complementary to each other and it is also quite likely that our target company has obtained financing through PE. The difference is that PE cannot handle the listing part but SPAC essentially completes that as it is already a listed company. As for traditional IPO, it is usual that some companies may consider whether to go public by IPO or SPAC. In fact, they both have their own advantages which I will not elaborate here. Asia-based SPACs are only a handful and they all already have their specific focuses on various industries ranging from medicine to education. SPAC is still at the initial stage in China with few successful cases and Chinese companies have insufficient understanding of such a model. It is fair to say that there is still no structured competition landscape yet in China in terms of SPAC.


12. 中国政府近来鼓励科技企业通过CDR(中国存托凭证)回中国再上市,您对此有何看法?

A:中国近来确实在推动CDR,但是第一批都是很大的企业,比如BAT,而非中小企业,所以这个问题,不是我们所担心的。况且今年中国上市形势较差,从美国回中国上市的企业很有限,CDR模式也尚不成熟。另外中国政府没有退市机制,这就意味着不可能引进太多的CDR。中国股票市场有很多股票,已经下跌的厉害,如果此时国外优质企业回中国上市,那么很多机构和个人便会转投这些股票,中国股票市场会更加低迷。


12. Given the Chinese government’s recent promotion of CDRs/re-listing of Chinese tech companies back to China, what is your thought on that?  

A: It is true that China has promoted CDR recently. But the first batch is large companies such as BAT instead of SME companies. Therefore, this is not an issue that we should be concerned about. This year, China’s listing situation is not favorable and the number of companies coming from US to China are limited with CDR listing model still somewhat immature. Besides, Chinese government has no delisting mechanism, which means that there will not be too many CDRs. Plus, stock prices of many companies in the Chinese stock market have dropped dramatically; if overseas companies of good quality come back to China at this very moment, institutions and individuals will shift their investment over immediately, leading to an even more depressed market. 


13. 杨杰先生,请给我们介绍介绍创造了业界奇迹的SPAC案例。

杨:SPAC模式在最近几年非常受投资者和企业的关注,我们比较熟悉的美国汉堡王就是通过SPAC上市的,2012年并购后,股价从14.5上涨到33美元,汉堡王当日市值上升到33亿美元。现在它的股价35美元,市值高达124亿美元。2016年5月,最大的私募基金黑石集团发起的SPAC平台融资6亿美元,成为近年融资规模最大的SPAC。埃森哲和EMC前CEO联合发起的壳公司也募资了4亿美元。就在最近,一个只有5000万美元的SPAC公司并购了一家销售额高达390亿美元,市值超过10亿美元的电子支付公司。可以说,在SPAC领域,任何不可能都可以变成可能,在将来也会有更多的奇迹值得我们期待。


13. Mr. Yang, please tell us some success cases in terms of SPAC which created miracle.

Yang: SPAC has got special attention from investors and companies in recent years. Burger King, the fast food company that we are familiar with, was actually listed through SPAC. After business combination in 2012, the stock price rose from 14.5 dollars to 33 dollars and the market value of Burger King rose to 3.3 billion dollars. Up to this moment, it is pricing at 35 dollars with a total market capitalization of 12.4 billion. In May, 2016, the biggest PE group-Blackstone has initiated a SPAC of 600 million dollars, becoming the largest SPAC in recent years. The SPAC jointly initiated by Accenture and eIx-CEO of EMC also reaches 400 million dollars. In July 2018, a SPAC of 50 million has combined an fintech company with 39 billion revenue and over one billion market value. It is fair to say that nothing is impossible regarding SPAC and there will be more miracles in the future for us to witness.


14. 马先生,您认为中美关系是否会影响中国企业去美国上市?

马:我认为中美关系对企业赴美上市确实或多或少有些影响,但不会带来太大或结构性的问题。从美国宏观角度来看,资本市场、金融体系是美国的支柱,绝不会是政府现在想要打击的对象。而美国证监会也需保持自己的公平公正,亦不会在上市法规上设立针对中国企业的特殊限制。从中国的角度,大部分民企在国内上市困难,加上A股目前低迷,赴美上市是绝大部分企业迈进资本市场的首选通道。综合以上两点,中国方面的供应还是会“源源不绝”,而美国也会保持“来者不拒”的状态,所以,影响应该还是较为有限的。


14. Mr. Ma, do you think Sino-US relationship will affect Chinese companies going public in American market?

Ma: I think the relationship between China and US can exert influence on Chinese companies going public in American market to certain extent but there should not be huge issues or structural problems. From the perspective of American market, capital market and financial system are the pillar of the US and will certainly not be the target of suppression of US government. The SEC also would have to maintain its fairness and cannot just simply set special constraints for Chinese companies in terms of listing regulations. From the perspective of China, most private companies have difficulty in getting listed domestically. Since A share is depressed, getting listed in America market is the first choice for most companies. Based on the above reasons, I believe the supply from China will be continuous and the US market will remain acceptive with open arms and therefore, the overall negative effect, if any, will be very limited.